3DNPC v3.04.7

Here is the seventh of ten weekly updates before the release of version 3.05. As always, the updates are cumulative, and encompass everything from version 3.04 on. This week we have Yushari voiced by Jennifer Hedwig, as well as Dar’rakki by FedoraandRapier.

I’ve also decided to let you use Ylgyne (sveekins) on a provisional basis. Technically, all but his opening two lines are silent/missing, but there’s a lot of re-takes that I need to have done for, well, reasons, but he’s otherwise functional and marriageable, and can be found in Fort Hraggstad.

Dagri’lon’s voice has also been re-recorded with a higher pitch so it’s easier to understand. Jay is a machine.

Lastly, foster xbl has also given permission to use the armor meshes from the Fat Bastard Mod, which look incredible. I want to use the mesh for a butcher in an upcoming quest, but I may go back and alter some of the older NPCs as well. 

3DNPC v3.04.7 UPDATE [Requires Installation of 3.04]

New Quests
Azzarian’s Gold (Glen Michael Cooper, Jay33721)
• Black Robes (Lila Paws, Ryan Cooper, Elisabeth Hutner, Damien Lacambra)

New NPCs
Arghus (Daniel Hodge)
Duraz (Jessica Osborne)
• Azzarian (Glen Michael Cooper)
Dro’bar (Joshua Brayton)
Lattimore (Ryan Cooper)
Julius (Damien Lacambra)
Merissa (Elisabeth Hunter)
• Cassius (Randy Westbrook), Ogdul (Ryan Cooper)
Yggleif (JLawrence Kenny)
Geel-Jah (Matthew Dixon) and Torveld (Ryan Cooper)
Lajjan (Cassandra Wladyslava)
Tanita (Cassandra Wladyslava)
• Yushari (Jennifer Hedwig)

Re-Recorded NPCs
Dar’rakki (FedoraandRapier)
Melea Entius (EvilSeedlet)
Morviah HlaaluLila Paws
Beatrice (Alice Bell)
Carmella (Katie Votapka)

Unfinished NPCs
• Ylgyne (sveekins)

New Marriage Candidates
Daenlyn Oakhollow
• Duraz
Jaspar Gaerston

New Textures
• Svashni’s Swords – (nonoodles)

New Music
• Nocturne (Giramor)
• Seven Septims for Sigurd (Ronja Monto)

All Fixes and Tweaks from v3.04

Cat and MouseNasrin teleported to player in the event he doesn’t show up in time
Callen and Raynes “meet me there” conditions fixed
• Crabber’s Wife – Juryk‘s family not disabling
• Post combat dialogue was not firing for inexplicable reason, moved it to a new quest and works again
Paper Mirror – Speech check for alternate ending was incorrectly applied to Theron
• Black Robes – Telling Anum-La to Wait at the Mourner’s Den will cause her to wait there forever if Lattimore is sent to Winterhold upon completion.
• Improper condition for Meresine upon meeting.
• Missing files for Alassea inn dialogue and the request portion of the Journey, also Journey flagged incorrectly as “SayOnce”
Gales of Guilt – Removed “SayOnce” flag on Foromir for cases where a line is triggered too early. Asgeld now teleported to the Blue Palace if the player beats him there.
Mogo’s Mead – Dialogue may have been disconnected in v3.04 causing quest not to start, also fixed rare issue where Maven is late to the party by teleporting her into place.
Sleeping Giant – Added failsafe package to ensure Anum-La and Fjona follow
Amsien not going to Lakeview Manor – “Setstage DialogueAmsien 3” will fix for old saves
• Changed vanilla RiftenHoneysidelocation to “LocTypeHouse” as it was incorrectly flagged “LocTypeInn”


46 thoughts on “3DNPC v3.04.7

  1. Do be careful with the inclusion of custom meshes, especially body meshes. One of 3DNPCs strengths is how it “feels vanilla”. Models that stand out might compromise that seamless integration.

        1. I think what was ment is a bit different. Let me put it that way – sometimes, when you meet some npcs introduced by the mod (not the most popular ones, obviously), you can tell they are not vanilla ones only after talking to them and understanding they have much more deeper background than any of vanilla npcs could ever have. And that’s the part of magic! That’s a bit of awesomeness, that’s the power that allowes the very feeling it’s not a mod you use, it’s something that belongs here and always will be. When you meet a fat bastard… in that context, well, it may be fun, with quest and all, but some of that magic that glues the mod and original game in one piece might be suddenly *poof* gone.

        2. They’re not really that fat. It’s just the largest size NPC plus a boiler. I think you guys are assuming this person is going to be some humongous blob that stands out, but really that’s not the case.

        3. What? This mod shouldn’t be held back because of the design flaws of Bethesda. That’s like saying this mod shouldn’t have NPCs that have custom voice acting because they aren’t in the vanilla game.

          I say if adding something new can improve the mod, then go for it. Just because vanilla Skyrim doesn’t have “actual” fat people, doesn’t mean this mod can’t add them.

        4. I’ll try to explain my reservations better.

          The common NPC silhouette is not a design flaw, it is a design decision. Skyrim NPCs have a distinct uniform body shape, and some art lead, at some point, decided there would be no flagrant variation, and that was it. The call being made on artistic grounds or from a lack of time or resources makes no difference. It is not a flaw, it is part of the game’s final design. All vanilla NPCs abide by it.

          Adding new body shapes breaks with that current paradigm. It is noticeable. Not seamless. It makes you see the man behind the curtain. It moves 3DNPC from a mod that adds interesting NPCs within the current framework to one that goes beyond the current design chart, and this is what makes me feel it is out of scope.

        5. Sorry, but it doesn’t seem out of place at all to me. From the front, you can’t even tell the difference with a 100 weight NPC. It looks EXACTLY the same.


          From the side, you see evidence of a boiler. That’s it. That’s the difference.


          To me this doesn’t constitute a “flagrant variation.”

          There is a larger difference between weight slider set at 0 and weight 100 than there is between weight 100 and “fat bastard”

        6. Oh look, the pictures! You’re right Kris, that doesn’t seem even half as bad as I could imagine in terms of standing out. Thank you for answering to our doubts!

  2. Okay…I was wondering…if you take in some NPCs from this mod as companions, are they supposed to be able to die? Because one of them did for me…can’t recall his name…but he is the older sounding voice, I think I picked him up in the northern half of the map…not sure where exactly.

    1. Valgus? You got Valgus killed? A lot of NPCs in this mod can die, including followers. Sometimes they even say unique things when they die (Like Zora in her final dying breaths whispering sorry to her sister).

    2. After an NPC’s quests and related quests are finished, then they are no longer marked essential.. but this isn’t true for all cases. I don’t think Valgus should be able to die before you’ve finished A Spell for Rumarin and The Blood of Kings questline. Zora has a scripted death that is one outcome of a certain quest, which can render the BoK quests unavailable…
      Every time I’ve had Valgus as a follower and did a “killall’ console command to quickly clear a cave, he just dropped into bleedout and was fixed by ‘resurrect’. Are you using any mods that allow for essential NPC’s to be killed?

  3. The fatsuit sounds like a wonderful idea. The whole point of Interesting NPC’s is to create the varied, immersive experience that vanilla Skyrim doesn’t have, not to create some sort of treasure hunt where you constantly compare and contrast vanilla vs. modded NPCs. It’s also fun for roleplay purposes. I can imagine a player character poking at someone’s stomach and generally being annoying. Skyrim shouldn’t be a world of models, and I appreciate how so far you have avoided that in the mod.
    3.07!! Version 4.0 is almost here! :D :D :D Is there a way to enable silent dialogue for Ylgyne or any NPC?

  4. Hi Kris! Sorry to be a bother, but playing through Skyrim + 3DNPCs again made me wonder. Is there any plan to make it so you can recruit multiple 3DNPC followers at a time? Or…maybe there is a way to do that and I’ve just missed it. I just like all the followers so much, I hate having to decide who to take with me~

  5. EDIT

    sorry, I can’t use EFF because of SKSE, I’ve just uninstalled AFT because it borked everything, and I don’t know what SWF is?

  6. I have to say, I don’t think that the Gales of Guilt‘s writing is up to standard. I mean, hullo, Elislif and Falk? I am the Arch-Mage of the College of Winterhold, the Harbringer of the Companions and a Stormblade in the Stormcloak army who played a part in taking your city, if you want to take it to that. I also exterminated Queen Potema for you. Not to mention the minor task of defeating Alduin. And you are discounting my testimony because some fop had produced evidence of my connections with the Raven (but continue to threat me warmly after that)?

    I appreciate the delayed consequences, but I don’t think they really play out well here.

    1. I don’t see how this is bad writing. At worst, it’s just a suspension of disbelief required for any open world video game. But even then, I don’t see you being a hero as a problem.

      For instance, let’s say someone like Superman, savior of the Planet Earth, who everyone assumes is a paragon of justice, was caught on camera shoplifting or used his power to look at naked ladies, you best believe it would be a HUUUUGE scandal.

      The fact that you are a well known hero and yet have been found to have committed crimes against a Jarl only exacerbates the fact that you are two-faced and not someone to be trusted.

      This is exemplified by the fact that if you have no associations with criminal elements, Foromir‘s surprise evidence will be very weak and cost you no points at the trial. To me, this is a perfect example of how your actions can have consequences. Meanwhile, in vanilla, I can be a DB assassin and Thane no one gives a shit.

      Of course, even then we’re ignoring the fact that Foromir’s evidence still won’t be enough if you dismantled his points earlier on. You can still win the trial and be friends with the Raven.

      (but continue to treat me warmly?)
      Yes, once the quest is over, I cannot add new dialogue to vanilla NPCs. This is obviously a limitation of modding and a crazy thing to criticize the quest over.

      Guess what? You can also kill a random citizen in front Elisif, and if you pay the bounty, she’ll continue to treat you warmly. But of course, you would never call this a flaw because any sane person would understand the game mechanics at play here, and a certain amount of disbelief must be suspended. You’re nitpicking something that you would never apply to the vanilla game, and they have access to Elisif and Falk’s actors.

      To me, integrating vanilla NPCs into a quest in this manner is worth whatever lack of post-quest dialogue is involved. That has nothing to do with writing. I can write a line right now where Elisif is shocked to hear the savior of Skyrim worked with the Raven. But I doubt I’ll be getting Corri English(Elisif’s actor) to voice it. That’s not a literary standard. It’s an unreasonable one.

      1. “Yes, I cannot add new dialogue to vanilla NPCs. This is obviously a limitation of modding and a crazy thing to criticize the quest over. ”

        I get your point, but I do think that such results should be avoided in quest writing because of it. Killing random citizens is not something the game really pushes you to do. It’s different from writing a quest with such a discordant attitude (for instance, including a quest that encourages you to kill Bryling right in front of Elislif would be a bad idea exactly for this reason).

        Not to mention that the implication of the Raven quest that no one actually noticed that it was you who stole the stuff? It’s not like Jarl of Markarth sends out people to arrest you. If you are supposed to conclude that people actually noticed, then the problem lies here.

        Some lampshading and justification like:

        Player: “Considering my status, my word should not be discarded lightly”.
        Foromir: “The Jarl would likely agree that you have a point. I wouldn’t be surprised that even now, the Jarl has a fondness for you. But I also have a high status, and it’s your world against mine. For the purposes of this Court, my world is to be trusted more”.

        would make what’s going on more believable, though even in this case I still wouldn’t understand how come Foromir gained any knowledge about the dealings.

        1. My point is, the game doesn’t push you to be a thief, either. But if you choose to, the consequences are there. Just as there are rewards for keeping your nose clean.

          As for the Raven, you were in Old Hroldan talking to Asteria. You and Asteria were seen in Markarth at the time of the theft. In fact, she WAS PLAYING the song when the theft happened. Given she disappeared, the Jarl and the sellswords might put 2 and 2 together that she was involved.

          Foromir‘s evidence is not enough to convict, but it’s basically witness testimony that the two of you were talking.

          The dialogue you suggest is explicitly stating what’s already implied. As I pointed out earlier, your status only makes things worse, there’s no need to spell that out.

          Lastly, NONE of it matters if you A) led a truly paragon life or B) properly dismantled his earlier testimony. It’s a cheap trick by Foromir that only works if you failed the earlier portion of the trial. He’s trying to sway a jury with shock value. The facts are enough to override that – but relying on your hero-ness will not, if that is found to be a lie.

        2. I was talking more about game pushing you to do stuff before the characters that doesn’t make sense from the point of view of their later reactions. What is spelt out in my suggestion is the reasoning why Elislif might choice to disbelieve you, while still liking you.

          So, everything Foromir has is that I was seen talking to the thief and that I was in the palace at the same time the theft occured? If this is the quality of evidence he has, then it’s rather weak and my status may work in my defence, as in “do you really believe these vague and inproven accusations against ME?”

        3. You mentioned she treated you warmly. I was simply pointing out how it should be obvious to you why she treated you warmly, the same way it’s obvious to me why she does after I murder someone. There is a technical limitation the mod has of not having access to vanilla actors.

          My point is that given the mod limitations, I don’t see how it’s in any way reasonable to expect me to have Elisif react to you post-quest, just as it’s in no way reasonable to have her react to my murder. I can’t have an NPC record a single new line besides the token lines that have been edited to fit the quest.

          As for Foromir, of course the evidence is weak. It’s for shock value. It’s not enough to create a conviction, but it’s damn sure enough to convict you in the court of public opinion.

          Let’s use the Superman analogy again. He’s saved the world countless times. But if he was seen being friendly with a famous thief, talking to them on the day of a huge heist, you don’t think that would make people doubt his sincerity? Especially because he’s a huge hero. Maybe over time, they might find it circumstantial. But there’s a reason Foromir waits until the end of the trial – right before the verdict – to bust it out. He doesn’t give you a chance to retort.

          Naturally, if this was real life, maybe you can jump in and say what you just said. But it’s a game. Certain parts are on rails for the sake of the narrative. You can’t jump off the wagon at Helgen either. But this doesn’t mean you don’t have a way to escape.

          There are many ways to beat Foromir. The gameplay is structured to weigh it more toward dismantling his testimony as opposed to relying on your reputation.

  7. Although Lundvar could reasonably inform them about my request. This makes it more believable. Still, I don’t think that my status could make it worse for me, considering that it’s not enough to convict. Foromir‘s own status could make it better for him, though, and that’s the rationale I’m suggesting.

    1. It happens every day. Celebrities who sell themselves as clean and virtuous get caught doing something bad, and it’s a huge scandal. Meanwhile, people who routinely do bad things and are known for being bad boys get away with pretty much everything. Think about the difference between Charlie Sheen getting busted for cocaine and hookers and someone like Obama getting caught doing the same. Same crime, completely different public reaction.

      It’s about perception.

      Over time, people may forgive and forget. In the seconds before a verdict is read, it has a major impact. It’s a trick by Foromir to influence the Jarl. A trick you can avoid via the facts.

      Foromir’s status is already implied. He’s a noble. He talks fancy. He doesn’t have to spell it out for you that he’s respected. Same with Lundvar‘s input. He might very well be the witness – but it’s unnecessary to say it explicitly given he may be dead. Better to just say there’s a witness.

  8. “My point is that given the mod limitations, I don’t see how it’s in any way reasonable to expect me to have Elisif react to you post-quest, just as it’s in no way reasonable to have her react to my murder.”

    In no way I am expecting you to start writing lines for Elislif. My own point is that quests that result in such whacky stuff are flawed in that regard, just like it would be flawed to write a quest where she is expected to witness you murder someone.

    I, however, am willing to accept the “huge shock in the trial, but she had doubts afterwards and prefers not to talk about it” line (especially considering that she’s weak-willed, in case of someone like Ulfric it would’ve been more weird). In this case, it’s only flawed if you talk to her directly after the trial, but it’s a minor thing.

    Now, for technical issues: her “by the gods” reaction wasn’t voiced for me. Are you sure you set up this file correctly?

    1. Well, then all mod quests involving vanilla NPCs are flawed, because they all inevitably will have no post-quest reaction. You’re saying you would rather the quests not involve them period.

      Personally, I rather use them. I think involving Elisif in a trial as opposed to some makeshift arbiter is more immersive, regardless of the minor downside post-quest. I like having Maven and Vulwulf involved in the Mogo’s Mead quest. If you disagree with this choice, then that’s fine. But it’s a deliberate design choice with pros and cons, not short-sighted writing.

      Hm, there’s a file there dated 11/14 but it could be silent. Distance might also account for not being able to hear it. I’ll re-add it for tomorrow’s update just in case.

      1. Well, Vanilla npc’s involvement in some of these quests are too minor to merit a reaction. It would be ridiculous to complain that Viola or Brunwulf don’t explicitly acknowledge post-quest that I was at Viola’s party with Erevan – while should this trivia be especially significant to them, or change their attitudes to me at all?

        This quest is a different issue altogether, but as long as the mod isn’t bursting with such quests all over the place, it can be defended as a design choice.

        1. Vanilla involvement will always be limited due to the nature of modding, but it’s always something that i believe helps integration.

          i think the problem you had with this quest is the idea that you were on trial, and not Asgeld‘s father. You’re assuming the revelation would having lasting consequences regarding their opinion of you, which is why you take umbrage.

          However, not only is Foromir‘s accusation flimsy, which prevents any long term effects, but technically the only thing that’s weakened is the admissibility of your testimony. If the morality of your character is not absolute, Elisif may feel it necessary as an impartial judge to give less weight to your opinion, even if she privately believes you’re the greatest. She may even overcompensate, as that would fit her character.

          (Which is exactly what happens – less weight is applied, but it’s not the end all be all, you can know the Raven and still win the ruling)

          Ultimately, the lasting effects of Foromir’s revelation on your relationship with the Queen is indeed trivial. It’s just one more ruling to her. The lasting effect on Asgeld’s father – which is ultimately the point of the trial – may not be.

  9. Well, you are rejected on the basis of your overall character, not on the basis of your connection to specifically this case. I still think that the potential for a “wrong” interpretation of what’s going on, like with my case, is big enough as written that some lampshading/spelling it out in Foromir‘s dialogue is necessary. Ultimately, it’s your call, of course.

    1. Except that’s incorrect. You aren’t rejected on the basis of your character.

      The validity of your cross-examination is what’s being questioned, and at no point is it “rejected.” As I stated earlier, Elisif may still rule in Asgeld‘s favor. If you prove Foromir is a liar, there’s no reason for her to believe anything he says.

      Your overall character is just one piece of a larger puzzle, and the most insignificant part. The most important factors in the trial are as follows:

      1) Asgeld’s father is actually innocent
      2) Foromir’s ability to lie and spin the truth
      3) Your ability to catch Foromir in his lies

      and then, waaaaaay down there at the bottom, is your character. The loss of the trial, or this rejection you speak of is mostly based on points 2 and 3. Your associations are the least important aspect, but may swing the trial if you fail at exposing him.

      In other words, if you’ve completed the Raven quest, are buddies with Rumarin or joined a criminal guild, Elisif is literally (through a point system) putting less weight into your words, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t considering them carefully, especially if you’ve successfully racked up points earlier on.

      It’s a wild card factor, but it’s by know means the basis of anything. And because it’s a wild card and Foromir’s “evidence” is for shock value only, it doesn’t really have any lasting effects. It’s a trick that Foromir uses to his advantage, and perhaps one that works much better on someone like Elisif than it would on General Tullius.

      1. Another way of putting it is this:

        If you fail spectacularly at the cross-examination, then Foromir‘s surprise evidence is also irrelevant. But it may appear that knowing the Raven is what lost you the trial, simply because of the timing.

        I think that’s where your confusion lies. Because Foromir was being so dramatic with his revelation, you assumed your associations were more important than they actually were to the outcome. The cross-examination is what makes or breaks the case, the associations are just the tie-breaker. The dialogue you’re suggesting would only reinforce the idea that this part of the trial is more important than it is.

        As for post-effects, once the trial is over, if there were any shocking revelations, they fade due to lack of evidence. Still there are always rumors, no different then random psychic guards saying “hail sithis” to you. But it doesn’t affect your relationship with the queen, just as joining the Thieves Guild wouldn’t. So I see no issues during or post-quest as it’s consistent with vanilla.

        1. It wasn’t clear at all to me. The dialogue gave me a definite impression that it’s my associations that decided it first and foremost. No dialogue suggests that it’s the weak cross-examination the court takes primary issue with. Had Asgeld expressed alarm at my questioning, saying that it would be possible to do better, or had Elislif said that she’s not convinced before Foromir dropped his bomb, then it would be a different issue and I wouldn’t be complaining about it.

          1. Elisif can’t say anything, that much should be obvious, and I already explained the reasons why. I prefer to use the palace and the actual jarl instead of a fake NPC who is suddenly granted powers to adjudicate. This is a deliberate choice, and adds to integration. The pros outweigh the cons.

            The importance of the cross-examination is patently obvious, or else it wouldn’t exist. Certainly when choosing your answers, you had to assume that saying “Asgeld‘s father can’t read” would have consequences. To say otherwise is silly.

            “Had Asgeld expressed alarm at my questioning, saying that it would be possible to do better”
            Asgeld absolutely does indicate where you stand on the questioning. He either tells you you’re doing bad, you’re doing okay, or you’re doing great.

            There is only 1 instance where Foromir‘s bombshell can turn a “you’re doing great” to a failure, and that’s if you

            A) only slightly dismantled Foromir’s testimony and
            B) completed the Raven of Anvil, which has the highest negative connotation.

            Every other instance, like say, being in the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood, does not cost you the trial. This is why Asgeld gives the qualifier “so long as there are no surprises, we should be good.” It’s to account for this singular combination. So yes, Asgeld does tell you where you stand, but he also tells you that it’s not a guarantee.

            In this rare instance, Foromir’s bombshell is the straw that broke the camel’s back. Sure, the straw is what gets the attention. But its weight is nothing compared to all the luggage you’ve thrown on it previously.

          2. The one thing I can do is make it so Asgeld only tells you you’re doing great if you are absolutely going to win. This would remove any confusion from the rare instance where failure is caused by Foromir‘s bombshell (again, 5 out of 6 times the “you’re doing great” will account for success)

  10. Yeah, it appears that this rare instance is the only point in writing where potential for confusion is way too high. If you change it, then I don’t think there’s a large problem with it.

    1. Yeah, I’ll have Giramor record an additional line that will give Asgeld four different responses – bad, okay, good, great.

      It’ll say something to the effect of

      1. Well you did good, but you could’ve done better. Still, I think Elisif will rule in a favor. Let’s just hope Foromir doesn’t have any surprises up his sleeve.

      This way, there won’t be any confusion if you win or if you lose(since the majority of time you’ll be winning)

      Asgeld will only say the “That was amazing!” line if the win is guaranteed.

  11. I’m so sorry Kris, I’m apparently an idiot. So I did as you said and dropped all the update stuff in the Data folder (this includes Meshes/sound/textures/seq./bsa./esp and I renamed them so -ex 3npc(2)- they wouldn’t overite the original) and all of a sudden I got double of everyone! There was two of all your chars and none of the new content. I’ve got to be doing something wrong. Is there a process? Maybe I should just wait for v3.05 to come out with all the updates, although I don’t want to…

      1. Yay! It worked! They only thing is however is non of the make-up is on the char, but now that I have them this is relatively minor tank you so much for being patient with me!

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